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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Nov 7, 2012 4:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

Why is anyyone entitled to an education?
If you want an education, go out work for it. Why should it be just handed to you?
Why do you want to be dependent on the government to provide you with an education? or healthcare? or anything?
That is what they want. The more things you become dependent upon the government for, the more they control your life.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Nov 7, 2012 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

Hey FB--well, the short answer is "it's cheaper"...ie, "we" have all gotten together and agreed to let Gubermint do a bunch of things (roads, dams, bridges, police, fire, etc) cause it just works better that way...we hope. Kids are entitled to it in Arizona cause our state constitution sez so (ie, it sez college/uni's have to be virtually free...though they aren't).

We DO have an agreed upon set of "these things should be 'close' to freeish" cause folks over the past few thousand yrs have come to see society as the better for it.

All the infra structure, blah, blah, blah; we might ALL agree that each and EVERY application of items on these lists is messed up via any and all sorts of problems you guys cite, BUT in principle, we are struggling with it because of Ring's point above...which is the other short answer to you and Mando: "scrogge" (ie, deregulation NEVER really works due to selfish self interest; we HAVE to have 'delegated powers' doing much of this stuff or it breaks down).

But, the two of you rightly point out that the system is far from perfect...ah, such is life, eh?

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 7, 2012 10:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

Then why did it work reasonably well until 1930?

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Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Nov 7, 2012 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

Presume you're referring to the educational system. (Define reasonably well ;) )

Well, I'm not a history/anthropology/sociologist, but here's a stab with rough facts. In 1930, US population was 122 million souls, with roughly 30 million west of the Mississippi - the rest occupying what we now call "the South", Midwest and Northeast. Roughly 70 million living in urban areas (their definition - towns over 2,500) , rural population 50 million. Again, in rough terms, almost half the pop. engaged in agrarian economy and subsistence. Race/ethnicity: white - almost 89%, other 11%. Up to this point there were very few workers' unions, and labor was cheap. The previous two decades saw a tremendous surge in economic productivity, electrification and mass production, but consumers did not have enough income. Huge income disparity. Great Depression. Massive unemployment. Dust Bowl.

Rough seat of the pants evaluation: a more homogenous population, largely uneducated, largely concentrated east of the Mississippi, engaged primarily in heavy labor or farming. Did it work better? or would you blame it all on Roosevelt and the New Deal?

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Nov 7, 2012 12:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Forget ObamaCare -- Let's just rely on ambulances and emergency rooms!

People were certainly made of much sterner stuff and more ably suited to handle the conditions they were in. You drop today's population into 1930's conditions and they would die within a month. As you noted, 50% of the population were farmers or worked in farm/ag related jobs. In 1930 the population was 70% prducer/305 consumer. Today it's 20% producer/80% consumer.

The New Deal brought a lot of good things, but it came with a price that we are now getting called on to pay. For all of the good things that resulted - ND ushered in a new era of unprecedented Big Gov and started us down the road of dependency on Big Gov.

My father in law was a child of the Depression and his stories are mind numbing. Most people today would fail under those conditions - and my fear is those conditions are gatehring steam and bearing down on us again.